[Discuss] Reactions to Defense Distributed?

Fri Nov 1 22:43:28 UTC 2013

Hi Matt,

This is an excellent take on this issue! Do you mind if I quote you on my
dissertation? I'm just not sure which of the NYCR Matts you are :)

Cheers,
Catarina

On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 6:25 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:

> I think the only interesting questions to be raised by this 3d printed
> weapon BS, is how we fundamentally view CAD, programming, and general
> automation of tasks.
>
> Is CAD a form of knowledge in the same way that a book is?
>
> Is censorship of CAD files basically the same as placing limits on our own
> ability to seek knowledge?  And is that a bad thing?  I can't help but see
> books burning when I see CAD files removed from the internet.  Now I know I
> am on the extreme side of pro-freedom, but I still see the opportunity for
> terrible abuses in a digital fabrication age.  We've seen what DRM has done
> to the publishing industry.  I walk through a used book store and I can see
> the world of knowledge that amazon has all but left to rot hidden in the
> dusty stacks of now vanishing ruins to a bygone industry.  And the fault is
> not amazons... the fault is copyrights that are held by companies with no
> desire or incentive to ensure the survivability of their content.
>
> The future of CAD is already wrapped in a turmoil of patents, copyrights,
> and political correctness.  I think we should be focused more on protecting
> designs from loss.  Internet Archive and the sort may play a key role in
> that better future.
>
> But one question continues to challenge me.  "If it's so easy to <x> with
> a CAD file, does it stop being knowledge?"  And it's a fair question.  When
> a file represents an object, most will see it as the button they press to
> get an object, and not the collection of information that defines that
> object.
>
> Is it knowledge then?  Even if it contains that knowledge has the function
> been rewritten by common use?
>
> I don't know.  But I trust people to be awesome.  So I want the knowledge
> to be preserved.  And I want the knowledge to be there for others to build
> on if they choose, or equally ignore if they choose.  I don't want to live
> in a world where people's works can be taken from them.  And that's exactly
> what has happened in the past with classification of data, with DRM, and
> with content as a commodity.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Devlin Thyne <dthyne at dh-global.com> wrote:
>
>> Looking at my RSS feed from Thingiverse, it seems the last post was in
>> December of 2012. If you would like, I can send you all the posts since
>> early 2011.
>>
>> Bre Pettis had a post about deadly weapons from October 3rd of 2011,
>> quoted below:
>>
>> When we started Thingiverse we didn’t want there to be weapons on it, but
>> there were a number of awesome toy weapons that blurred the line and so we
>> changed the TOS to something more blurry and toy weapons carried on. In
>> fact, if you shoot anything on Thingiverse fast enough, you could hurt
>> someone. There have been a lot of things on Thingiverse that could be
>> classified as weapons, but they could also be classified as toys. A
>> miniature catapult is technically a siege weapon, but it could also be
>> classified as a toy. To summarize, our weapons policy has been a blurry
>> line.
>>
>> Recently there has been a lot of discussion around guns since the lower
>> arm of an AR-15 model went up on Thingiverse. It’s a beautiful model. It’s
>> also the only part of the AR-15 that you can’t just mail order. It’s been
>> possible and legal to make your own firearms since the beginning of the
>> USA, but is Thingiverse the right place for deadly weapons?
>>
>> We’re discussing this internally and we’re spending time exploring the
>> legalities of firearms on Thingiverse. We want to make sure that
>> Thingiverse can be accessed from schools and is student friendly and we are
>> exploring the implications of weapons on Thingiverse for classrooms.
>>
>> It’s a controversial subject. For myself, I get a lot of satisfaction
>> from shooting guns in the woods at tin cans, but I also had my best
>> childhood friend commit suicide with a gun he bought by routing around the
>> registration process. I’m not convinced that 3D printing is easier than
>> buying a gun illegally, but it does offer another avenue for weapons to
>> enter the world. Will the next war be armed with 3D printers? One thing
>> that’s for sure, the cat is out of the bag and that cat can be armed with
>> guns made with printed parts.
>>
>> Before we make a decision, I’d like to get the Thingiverse users’
>> feedback. We’re going to either change the terms of service or not, but we
>> want to get your feedback before we make that decision.
>>
>> On Thingiverse you’ll find a poll in the sidebar with three possible
>> choices. Below the choices is a place for you to leave your comments. This
>> poll can only be seen if you’re logged in. Each Thingiverse user can only
>> vote once and once you’ve made your choice, the poll disappears. I hope
>> you’ll take the time to tell us what kind of Thingiverse you want and use
>> the comment section to tell us why.
>>
>> On 11/01/2013 09:20 AM, Catarina Mota wrote:
>>
>>> Also, am I missing something is the Thingiverse blog gone? Searched the
>>> Makerbot blog and couldn't find anything about the weapons ban.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Catarina Mota
>>> <catarina at openmaterials.org <mailto:catarina@**openmaterials.org<catarina at openmaterials.org>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Thanks Johan, that's a great tip! Do you by any chance have links?
>>>     I've only been able to find weapon-related discussions from the last
>>>     6 months.
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Johan Söderberg
>>>     <johan.soderberg at sts.gu.se <mailto:johan.soderberg at sts.**gu.se<johan.soderberg at sts.gu.se>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Hi Catarina,
>>>
>>>         You can find reactions from the community in-real-time in the
>>>         Rep-rap discussion forums and on Thingiverse blog from
>>>         September-Oktober 2011. In the Rep-rap forum, speculations on
>>>         this possibility dates back to day one the project was started
>>>         (2005), but in threads that have been pushed to the back by the
>>>         moderators. Please keep me updated, I be very interested to read
>>>         if you are going to write about this topic.
>>>
>>>         /Johan
>>>         ______________________________**_________________
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>>> >
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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