[Discuss] Reactions to Defense Distributed?

matt matt at nycresistor.com
Fri Nov 1 22:58:06 UTC 2013


joyce =P  the original damn it!   this is what happens when you put
yourself on thingiverse...


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Catarina Mota <catarina at openmaterials.org>wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> This is an excellent take on this issue! Do you mind if I quote you on my
> dissertation? I'm just not sure which of the NYCR Matts you are :)
>
> Cheers,
> Catarina
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 6:25 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the only interesting questions to be raised by this 3d printed
>> weapon BS, is how we fundamentally view CAD, programming, and general
>> automation of tasks.
>>
>> Is CAD a form of knowledge in the same way that a book is?
>>
>> Is censorship of CAD files basically the same as placing limits on our
>> own ability to seek knowledge?  And is that a bad thing?  I can't help but
>> see books burning when I see CAD files removed from the internet.  Now I
>> know I am on the extreme side of pro-freedom, but I still see the
>> opportunity for terrible abuses in a digital fabrication age.  We've seen
>> what DRM has done to the publishing industry.  I walk through a used book
>> store and I can see the world of knowledge that amazon has all but left to
>> rot hidden in the dusty stacks of now vanishing ruins to a bygone
>> industry.  And the fault is not amazons... the fault is copyrights that are
>> held by companies with no desire or incentive to ensure the survivability
>> of their content.
>>
>> The future of CAD is already wrapped in a turmoil of patents, copyrights,
>> and political correctness.  I think we should be focused more on protecting
>> designs from loss.  Internet Archive and the sort may play a key role in
>> that better future.
>>
>> But one question continues to challenge me.  "If it's so easy to <x> with
>> a CAD file, does it stop being knowledge?"  And it's a fair question.  When
>> a file represents an object, most will see it as the button they press to
>> get an object, and not the collection of information that defines that
>> object.
>>
>> Is it knowledge then?  Even if it contains that knowledge has the
>> function been rewritten by common use?
>>
>> I don't know.  But I trust people to be awesome.  So I want the knowledge
>> to be preserved.  And I want the knowledge to be there for others to build
>> on if they choose, or equally ignore if they choose.  I don't want to live
>> in a world where people's works can be taken from them.  And that's exactly
>> what has happened in the past with classification of data, with DRM, and
>> with content as a commodity.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Devlin Thyne <dthyne at dh-global.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Looking at my RSS feed from Thingiverse, it seems the last post was in
>>> December of 2012. If you would like, I can send you all the posts since
>>> early 2011.
>>>
>>> Bre Pettis had a post about deadly weapons from October 3rd of 2011,
>>> quoted below:
>>>
>>> When we started Thingiverse we didn’t want there to be weapons on it,
>>> but there were a number of awesome toy weapons that blurred the line and so
>>> we changed the TOS to something more blurry and toy weapons carried on. In
>>> fact, if you shoot anything on Thingiverse fast enough, you could hurt
>>> someone. There have been a lot of things on Thingiverse that could be
>>> classified as weapons, but they could also be classified as toys. A
>>> miniature catapult is technically a siege weapon, but it could also be
>>> classified as a toy. To summarize, our weapons policy has been a blurry
>>> line.
>>>
>>> Recently there has been a lot of discussion around guns since the lower
>>> arm of an AR-15 model went up on Thingiverse. It’s a beautiful model. It’s
>>> also the only part of the AR-15 that you can’t just mail order. It’s been
>>> possible and legal to make your own firearms since the beginning of the
>>> USA, but is Thingiverse the right place for deadly weapons?
>>>
>>> We’re discussing this internally and we’re spending time exploring the
>>> legalities of firearms on Thingiverse. We want to make sure that
>>> Thingiverse can be accessed from schools and is student friendly and we are
>>> exploring the implications of weapons on Thingiverse for classrooms.
>>>
>>> It’s a controversial subject. For myself, I get a lot of satisfaction
>>> from shooting guns in the woods at tin cans, but I also had my best
>>> childhood friend commit suicide with a gun he bought by routing around the
>>> registration process. I’m not convinced that 3D printing is easier than
>>> buying a gun illegally, but it does offer another avenue for weapons to
>>> enter the world. Will the next war be armed with 3D printers? One thing
>>> that’s for sure, the cat is out of the bag and that cat can be armed with
>>> guns made with printed parts.
>>>
>>> Before we make a decision, I’d like to get the Thingiverse users’
>>> feedback. We’re going to either change the terms of service or not, but we
>>> want to get your feedback before we make that decision.
>>>
>>> On Thingiverse you’ll find a poll in the sidebar with three possible
>>> choices. Below the choices is a place for you to leave your comments. This
>>> poll can only be seen if you’re logged in. Each Thingiverse user can only
>>> vote once and once you’ve made your choice, the poll disappears. I hope
>>> you’ll take the time to tell us what kind of Thingiverse you want and use
>>> the comment section to tell us why.
>>>
>>> On 11/01/2013 09:20 AM, Catarina Mota wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, am I missing something is the Thingiverse blog gone? Searched the
>>>> Makerbot blog and couldn't find anything about the weapons ban.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Catarina Mota
>>>> <catarina at openmaterials.org <mailto:catarina@**openmaterials.org<catarina at openmaterials.org>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks Johan, that's a great tip! Do you by any chance have links?
>>>>     I've only been able to find weapon-related discussions from the last
>>>>     6 months.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Johan Söderberg
>>>>     <johan.soderberg at sts.gu.se <mailto:johan.soderberg at sts.**gu.se<johan.soderberg at sts.gu.se>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Hi Catarina,
>>>>
>>>>         You can find reactions from the community in-real-time in the
>>>>         Rep-rap discussion forums and on Thingiverse blog from
>>>>         September-Oktober 2011. In the Rep-rap forum, speculations on
>>>>         this possibility dates back to day one the project was started
>>>>         (2005), but in threads that have been pushed to the back by the
>>>>         moderators. Please keep me updated, I be very interested to read
>>>>         if you are going to write about this topic.
>>>>
>>>>         /Johan
>>>>         ______________________________**_________________
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>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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