[Discuss] public files vs export control laws

Sat May 11 16:11:25 UTC 2013

this sort of thing certainly helps too:
http://fabbaloo.com/blog/2013/5/11/obama-announces-three-more-3d-printing-centers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Fabbaloo+%28Fabbaloo%29#.UY5tXZUVVpY

_________________________________________
malcolm stanley

google.voice:  215.821.6252
Cell: 267.251.9479   <------------- new
email: a.malcolm.stanley at gmail.com
twitter / linkedin: amstanley
Read my blog at http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com
_________________________________________

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Joel Murphy <joel at joelmurphy.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> I teach physical computing at Parsons, and I'm one half of the team that
> makes Pulse Sensor <http://pulsesensor.myshopify.com/>, a heart rate
> monitor for arduino.
> Also consulting on the hardware design for the team that won a DARPA
> solicitation to build a low-cost, high-quality EEG sensor. Cool thing about
> that is they mandate it to be Open Source. Not under contract yet, but
> aiming to have some fun devices by the time of the OSH summit.
>
> The Pulse Sensor gets some attention my way from companies that are
> looking to either incorporate my design into their product, or hire me to
> design a variant for them. Conversations don't usually get far past the
> words Open Hardware, but on two occasions I have strong interest in either
> a variant or a new design (SpO2 sensor) with the understanding that we have
> to follow the Open Hardware rules. It's exciting. The most interesting
> space is at the margin between OSH and IP.
>
> The EEG project will be high profile. Planning on publishing the entire
> process. Hope that can be an example of OIP that has a positive influence :]
>
> Open Hardware has created an entire economy of entrepreneurs, online
> retailers, and a customer base that is dedicated to self education and
> pushing the work further. Definitely can be said that Open Hardware has a
> positive effect on the economy.
>
> Agree that more positive examples help to dilute the negative energy of
> the plastic gun. Lots of work being done in the area of Health 2.0 that are
> open.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Tom Igoe <t.igoe at arduino.cc> wrote:
>
>> I agree Will, good approach.  What tactics do you recommend?
>>
>> Let's try a positive tack: what examples of open IP can we point to that
>> are already influencing the general public's lives for the better?
>>
>>
>> t.
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2013, at 3:59 PM, Will Canine <willcanine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think you're right that there is a danger if Cody Wilson's radical
>> voice is the only one people manage to hear -- and his combination of
>> two controversial subjects is, as you point out, a powerful amplifier.
>> People are listening, and the press is looking hungrily for the next step
>> in this story.
>>
>> We are not in a position to influence Cody's tactics, no matter how
>> ill-advised we might find them. We are, however, in a strong position to
>> offer the passionate, informed, and moderate counter point in a debate that
>> is gaining national attention. I think some sort of open letter or
>> interview, some sort of call for a debate, something, is in order.
>>
>> Bottom line: I think we should be talking about our own tactics in this
>> media situation, not just others'. What do you all think?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Flip side is of course you can argue that ITAR prevents other countries
>>> from competing with us by denying them access to our special sauce.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Tom Igoe <t.igoe at arduino.cc> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What's likely to shake ITAR is money going overseas because of it. If I
>>>> wanted to counter it, I'd show how the US is losing money because of it.
>>>>  As a country, we've shown quite decisively lately that we have no
>>>> political will to stop anything to do with weapons, but we sure as hell
>>>> care when a non-American takes a job we believe is ours (whether it is or
>>>> not).
>>>>
>>>> t.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that ardupilot does their releases from Europe
>>>> specifically to avoid potential ITAR violations.
>>>>
>>>> ITAR is fairly heavily used to restrict aerospace and space systems
>>>> work.
>>>>
>>>> SpaceGambit for instance being Darpa funded cannot escape ITAR
>>>> restrictions.  Which severely limits what they can do and with whom ( IE
>>>> non US citizens ).
>>>>
>>>> In Cody's case, he is a lot more vocal about being a rebellious hellion
>>>> than he actually is.  The man is very good at dotting 'i's and crossing
>>>> 't's.  The DoD ITAR transgressions aren't proven and the DoD simply
>>>> requested they formalize any classification of the specified CAD work.
>>>> Most of those were fairly esoteric... including designs for a tank shell,
>>>> an adapter for an oil can silencer, and the liberator.  The liberator is
>>>> most likely not covered by ITAR.  The tank shell probably is.
>>>>
>>>> But yes.  ITAR is real.  We are all required to adhere to it in the US.
>>>>
>>>> -Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Tom Igoe <t.igoe at arduino.cc> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a pretty good understanding of his tactics, I've been through a
>>>>> number of interviews and articles, and seen similar patterns before. I just
>>>>> think they are ill-advised. He's got two controversial topics in his
>>>>> actions:  weapons reform, and intellectual property reform. By doing what
>>>>> he's doing, he's tied the two together in many people's minds.  So now
>>>>> those same people will be less receptive to the idea that intellectual
>>>>> property regulation on its own is worth discussing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cody's chosen to take a radical stance. That's fine, but the
>>>>> consequence of that choose is that you alienate more people than you do
>>>>> than by taking a collaborative stance. He's got to live with that
>>>>> consequence, and unfortunately, now so do those of us who share his
>>>>> feelings about intellectual property reform.
>>>>>
>>>>> t.
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Will Canine <willcanine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that Wilson's point is that regulation can't stop the
>>>>> dispersion of disruptive designs via the Internet; he is not really looking
>>>>> for a waver or exemption or anything like that. His point is that now it's
>>>>> started, it can't be stopped, regulation be damned.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm as uninterested in guns as anyone here, but I do think it's worth
>>>>> looking at what he is doing more closely -- his tactics are worth learning
>>>>> from at the very least.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Tom Igoe <tom.igoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd have to agree, Malcolm.
>>>>>
>>>>> malcolm stanley <a.malcolm.stanley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My experience with Export Control for encryption technologies used in
>>>>>> consumer devices, instantiated as DRM solutions for Video on Demand movies,
>>>>>> suggests to me that the exception being sought is somewhat ... unrealistic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Weaponization of any technology is probably a poor strategy for
>>>>>> accomplishing the acheivement of a waiver from regulation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>> malcolm stanley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> google.voice:  215.821.6252
>>>>>> Cell: 267.251.9479   <------------- new
>>>>>> email: a.malcolm.stanley at gmail.com
>>>>>> twitter / linkedin: amstanley
>>>>>> Read my blog at http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com
>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Matt Maier <blueback09 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a dilemma that's been building up for a while now. Open
>>>>>>> source is all about sharing ideas so that anyone who wants to build them,
>>>>>>> or build off of them, can do so. Export control is a legal regime that
>>>>>>> makes sharing of certain ideas with non-authorized entities a federal crime.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those of you who were at the hardware documentation jam might
>>>>>>> remember the subject of legal constraints coming up, but at the time I
>>>>>>> didn't have a good example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would seem that we now have our test case. The State Department
>>>>>>> has ordered Defense Distributed to stop that whole "sharing guns" thing
>>>>>>> while they review whether or not making them internationally available
>>>>>>> violates International Traffic in Arms Regulations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/09/state-department-demands-takedown-of-3d-printable-gun-for-possible-export-control-violation/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cody Wilson, a law student, says that what he's doing falls into a
>>>>>>> protected exception for non-profit public domain research. His argument is
>>>>>>> that the files are "stored in a library" in the sense that all libraries
>>>>>>> have internet access and there is a single bookstore in Austin providing
>>>>>>> the published plans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Getting any kind of official exception to export control for open
>>>>>>> source technology development would be a huge win. It would pave the way
>>>>>>> for much more ambitious projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Making the world safe for robots
>
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