[Discuss] public files vs export control laws

Tue May 21 18:36:50 UTC 2013

Money has been going overseas because of ITAR for the last twenty
years and it hasn't put an end to the destructive nonsense. The reason
is simple -- the vast majority of the companies subject to the ITAR
stick are government contractors... and they aren't going to risk that
particular river of cash on principle.

-p

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Tom Igoe <t.igoe at arduino.cc> wrote:
> What's likely to shake ITAR is money going overseas because of it. If I
> wanted to counter it, I'd show how the US is losing money because of it.  As
> a country, we've shown quite decisively lately that we have no political
> will to stop anything to do with weapons, but we sure as hell care when a
> non-American takes a job we believe is ours (whether it is or not).
>
> t.
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2013, at 3:25 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>
> My understanding is that ardupilot does their releases from Europe
> specifically to avoid potential ITAR violations.
>
> ITAR is fairly heavily used to restrict aerospace and space systems work.
>
> SpaceGambit for instance being Darpa funded cannot escape ITAR restrictions.
> Which severely limits what they can do and with whom ( IE non US citizens ).
>
> In Cody's case, he is a lot more vocal about being a rebellious hellion than
> he actually is.  The man is very good at dotting 'i's and crossing 't's.
> The DoD ITAR transgressions aren't proven and the DoD simply requested they
> formalize any classification of the specified CAD work.  Most of those were
> fairly esoteric... including designs for a tank shell, an adapter for an oil
> can silencer, and the liberator.  The liberator is most likely not covered
> by ITAR.  The tank shell probably is.
>
> But yes.  ITAR is real.  We are all required to adhere to it in the US.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Tom Igoe <t.igoe at arduino.cc> wrote:
>>
>> I have a pretty good understanding of his tactics, I've been through a
>> number of interviews and articles, and seen similar patterns before. I just
>> think they are ill-advised. He's got two controversial topics in his
>> actions:  weapons reform, and intellectual property reform. By doing what
>> he's doing, he's tied the two together in many people's minds.  So now those
>> same people will be less receptive to the idea that intellectual property
>> regulation on its own is worth discussing.
>>
>> Cody's chosen to take a radical stance. That's fine, but the consequence
>> of that choose is that you alienate more people than you do than by taking a
>> collaborative stance. He's got to live with that consequence, and
>> unfortunately, now so do those of us who share his feelings about
>> intellectual property reform.
>>
>> t.
>>
>> On May 10, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Will Canine <willcanine at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think that Wilson's point is that regulation can't stop the dispersion
>> of disruptive designs via the Internet; he is not really looking for a waver
>> or exemption or anything like that. His point is that now it's started, it
>> can't be stopped, regulation be damned.
>>
>> I'm as uninterested in guns as anyone here, but I do think it's worth
>> looking at what he is doing more closely -- his tactics are worth learning
>> from at the very least.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 10, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Tom Igoe <tom.igoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd have to agree, Malcolm.
>>
>> malcolm stanley <a.malcolm.stanley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My experience with Export Control for encryption technologies used in
>>> consumer devices, instantiated as DRM solutions for Video on Demand movies,
>>> suggests to me that the exception being sought is somewhat ... unrealistic.
>>>
>>> Weaponization of any technology is probably a poor strategy for
>>> accomplishing the acheivement of a waiver from regulation.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________
>>> malcolm stanley
>>>
>>> google.voice:  215.821.6252
>>> Cell: 267.251.9479   <------------- new
>>> email: a.malcolm.stanley at gmail.com
>>> twitter / linkedin: amstanley
>>> Read my blog at http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com
>>> _________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Matt Maier <blueback09 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is a dilemma that's been building up for a while now. Open source
>>>> is all about sharing ideas so that anyone who wants to build them, or build
>>>> off of them, can do so. Export control is a legal regime that makes sharing
>>>> of certain ideas with non-authorized entities a federal crime.
>>>>
>>>> Those of you who were at the hardware documentation jam might remember
>>>> the subject of legal constraints coming up, but at the time I didn't have a
>>>> good example.
>>>>
>>>> It would seem that we now have our test case. The State Department has
>>>> ordered Defense Distributed to stop that whole "sharing guns" thing while
>>>> they review whether or not making them internationally available violates
>>>> International Traffic in Arms Regulations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/09/state-department-demands-takedown-of-3d-printable-gun-for-possible-export-control-violation/
>>>>
>>>> Cody Wilson, a law student, says that what he's doing falls into a
>>>> protected exception for non-profit public domain research. His argument is
>>>> that the files are "stored in a library" in the sense that all libraries
>>>> have internet access and there is a single bookstore in Austin providing the
>>>> published plans.
>>>>
>>>> Getting any kind of official exception to export control for open source
>>>> technology development would be a huge win. It would pave the way for much
>>>> more ambitious projects.
>>>>
>>>> -Matt
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>

-- 
Pierce Nichols
Principal Engineer
Logos Electromechanical, LLC