<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Thanks for all you very good replies, I didn't think at the begining that this was going to generate this very good thread.<br><br></div>Just clarifing: I chooses the asian market as an example because we cannot ignore the fact that they have all the capabilities to produce a lot of things at a cheaper price. I just was reading a couple days ago that they have the more fastest growing industry in the world in almost all products. Here in my country I personally know a factory owner that came from Taiwan and he estabilished their bussiness here and sometimes he has told me: How we can compete here if the people there in my own country is making the same that us for less price (including all the shipping costs)?<br>
<br><br></div><div>Now, thanks to your replies I can understand better that the problem it's if you look at the topic only in a capitalist "way of thinking" trying to analize from the mentality only of getting the more profits without considering all the added value of the OSHW can provide to everybody then it's pretty easy to feel lost and get the idea that you are not going to be able to compete in this highly competitive global market.<br>
</div><br><div><br>The original reason for my email was because I was interested to hear all your opinions about the topic, because I think that all we dream about a truly distributed manufacturing or P2P manufacturing so all can participate in the manufacturing of OSHW solutions and get profits from their work.<br>
<br></div><div>So I'm really happy that we have very good answers. <br></div><div><br><br></div><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Nathan Seidle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nathan@sparkfun.com" target="_blank">nathan@sparkfun.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Mario - excellent job raising many good questions. I'm going to pick on one that I believe is the root of your email:</div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">How the OSHW philosophy conciliates with the simple fact that the "makers" need something to eat at the end of the day?</span></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>This is the most common fallacy I hear. Said a different way: "OSHW sounds great but what if I want to pay my bills?" The truth of the matter is that OSHW will be more economically positive for makers in the long run.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Here's our product: <a href="https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11113" target="_blank">https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11113</a> And here's a "cloner", a.k.a someone doing cool stuff: <a href="http://www.uctronics.com/arduino-pro-mini-atmega328-5v16m-mwc-avr328p-development-board-p-1694.html" target="_blank">http://www.uctronics.com/arduino-pro-mini-atmega328-5v16m-mwc-avr328p-development-board-p-1694.html</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>And another - Us: <a href="https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10311" style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10311</a> And someone else doing good stuff: <a href="http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w5003-4372075591.1.T8CQqx&id=35666638194&scene=taobao_shop" style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif" target="_blank">http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w5003-4372075591.1.T8CQqx&id=35666638194&scene=taobao_shop</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>This competition is a good thing. It makes any company *not be complacent*. And in the modern global marketplace complacency is the quickest way to death. I am flattered every time we're copied and I am thankful for it because it prevents me from getting lazy and risking our business. <br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Do you think SparkFun has lost market share because these companies are selling these products? The answer is no. In example #1 (no forum, no contact info) we beat them with customer service. In example #2, we beat them with the extra materials (compatible cables, curriculum).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Are we paying attention? We'd be fools not to. We've got products in the pipeline to add new features to both of these products. We've got new procedures to lower our cost of goods (labor, parts, testing time). We've got new customer service and tech support initiatives to beat the competition. We are innovating to keep the competition at bay.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The second most common fallacy associate with OSHW is confusing business problems with open source problems. Can someone make your product for cheaper? Someone else *can always* make your product cheaper than you whether you are open or not. You choose 'Asian' manufacturers as your example but this is bogus and borders on xenophobia. There are plenty of companies all over the world that are better at manufacturing. It's your job as a business to figure out how to either sell the surrounding benefits (support, availability, quality, brand) or dedicate time to streamlining your manufacturing processes to lower COGS. I recommend both. It's what good, profitable businesses do.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>-Nathan</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></font></span><div class="gmail_extra">
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><font color="#888888">-- <br>Nathan Seidle<br>
CEO, SparkFun Electronics Inc<br>Boulder, CO<br>Phone : 1-303-284-0979<br>Fax : 1-303-443-0048 <a value="+13034430048"></a></font></div>
<br><br></font></span><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Matt Maier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:blueback09@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueback09@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 6:27 PM, alicia <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:amgibb@gmail.com" target="_blank">amgibb@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Consider the phrase "The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed." (by William Gibson in The Economist) That phrase implies the problem is not with innovating tech but innovating distribution, be it financial or geographical that is the real problem to conquer. </span></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Paul Graham has a cogent explanation in one of his essays about how the "wealth gap" is actually pretty irrelevant. Relative poverty is nothing compared to actual poverty. A person might feel poor when they can't travel every holiday, but feeling hungry is an entirely different thing. The uneven distribution of nice-to-haves will always exist, but I think we can eliminate the uneven distribution of must-haves. The necessities of life don't really change and they are ripe for open sourcing, which lowers costs by orders of magnitude. Lower cost means that everyone can afford them. Everyone might not get spaceships, but everyone can get shoes.</div>
<div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I argued in my thesis on the Arduino that one (out of 4) of the reasons it became popular was economical - it was cheaper than other microcontrollers on the market, but the technology of microcontrollers already existed. They made the microcontroller landscape better in more than one, but the economic factor was definitely one of them.</span><br>
</div><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div><br></div><div>In terms of making sure oshw is being manufactured in good working conditions, these are not IP concerns as much as business concerns. Any company with patented hardware and closed source software can use labor in acceptable or unacceptable ways, so I don't think the conversation centers around oshw as much as it does around business and economy. I say this purely as a thread of logic, not because I don't think stuff should be made in terrible environments or that we should not discuss it. I am all about happy shiny people holding hands, and I would and do pay more for products produced in ways I like, but production lines drawn are not drawn between open and closed source stuff. </div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>People who have more of what they need are less at the mercy of abusive deals. Sort of a 'rising tide lifts all boats' situation. When the things necessary to live cost 10X or 100X or 1000X less the situation becomes much more "ideal" and everyone has the breathing room to act more rationally. Open source has a proven track record of making things less expensive and I think that will only continue as it's applied to more fundamental systems. When no one has to give up their future to get through the present problems like awful employment conditions will work themselves out.</div>
<div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div><br></div><div>Also thanks for being respectful of other cultures. Be mindful that we have people world-wide on this list.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Alicia </div><div> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div>
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