<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Will new regulation be required? I would think you could probably find some safety regs around durability and so on that would be challenging if not impossible to meet short term. </div><div><br></div><div>That would allow them to reinforce their own brand position while fundamentally attacking their opposition...<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On May 11, 2013, at 22:43, Matt Maier <<a href="mailto:blueback09@gmail.com">blueback09@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on the subject, but I do have an opinion that I am confident enough in to express.<div><br></div><div style="">The NRA, and a small ecology of similar organizations, does NOT represent people's opinions. The vast majority of gun owners DO have nuanced interpretations of the 2nd amendment. The NRA represents the gun industry. A nuanced interpretation of the 2nd amendment is bad for business. </div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">The gun industry is going to think it's bad enough that the additive manufacturing industry is starting to provide people desktop 3D printers. They are most definitely not going to be enamored of the idea that people might get that capability on their own from hobbyist groups like the RepRap project. And they are certainly not going to be supportive of the additional scrutiny that self-made plastic guns are going to bring to their industry. Remember, compromising the 2nd amendment is bad for business. Defense Distributed is providing a powerful argument for increased, or brand new, regulation.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 7:57 PM, Andrew Malcolm Stanley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Bear with me as I am confused by this assertion:</div><div><br></div><div>Are not those same politicians helped along by traditional manufacturers of guns, via their trade association the NRA?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Do we know that those manufacturers are supportive of this new technology which could be potentially disruptive to their marketplace?</div><div><br></div><div>If not we may find their support of their interpretation of the 2nd amendment begins to display some nuance...<br>
<br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br>On May 10, 2013, at 19:10, David Carrier <<a href="mailto:dcarrier@parallax.com" target="_blank">dcarrier@parallax.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite">
<div>
  
    
  
  
    There may be a a plus side to this case being about guns.  Had the
    DoD taken down DIY Drones, which they could consider an ITAR
    controlled export, the only political support would be from the
    relatively small group of politicians and NPOs that are aware of,
    and interested in, open-source hardware.  There aren't many
    pro-drone politicians.<br>
    <br>
    Being that this involves guns too, there are many politicians and
    NPOs that strongly oppose restrictions on guns and will do
    everything they can to make sure Defense Distributed comes out on
    the winning side of the debate.  Regardless of any of our individual
    views on guns and gun control, Cody Wilson may be fighting ITAR
    restrictions on open-source hardware from an angle that is more
    likely to win.<br>
    <br>
    — David Carrier<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Tom Igoe wrote:
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      I have a pretty good understanding of his tactics, I've been
      through a number of interviews and articles, and seen similar
      patterns before. I just think they are ill-advised. He's got two
      controversial topics in his actions:  weapons reform, and
      intellectual property reform. By doing what he's doing, he's tied
      the two together in many people's minds.  So now those same people
      will be less receptive to the idea that intellectual property
      regulation on its own is worth discussing.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Cody's chosen to take a radical stance. That's fine, but the
        consequence of that choose is that you alienate more people than
        you do than by taking a collaborative stance. He's got to live
        with that consequence, and unfortunately, now so do those of us
        who share his feelings about intellectual property reform.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>t.</div>
          <div><br>
            <div>
              <div>On May 10, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Will Canine <<a href="mailto:willcanine@gmail.com" target="_blank">willcanine@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <br>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                
                <div dir="auto">
                  <div>I think that Wilson's point is that regulation
                    can't stop the dispersion of disruptive designs via
                    the Internet; he is not really looking for a waver
                    or exemption or anything like that. His point is
                    that now it's started, it can't be stopped,
                    regulation be damned. </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>I'm as uninterested in guns as anyone here, but I
                    do think it's worth looking at what he is doing more
                    closely -- his tactics are worth learning from at
                    the very least. </div>
                  <div><br>
                    Sent from my iPhone</div>
                  <div><br>
                    On May 10, 2013, at 1:38 PM, Tom Igoe <<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">I'd have to agree, Malcolm.<br>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">malcolm stanley <<a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div dir="ltr">My experience with Export Control
                          for encryption technologies used in consumer
                          devices, instantiated as DRM solutions for
                          Video on Demand movies, suggests to me that
                          the exception being sought is somewhat ...
                          unrealistic.
                          <div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <div>Weaponization of any
                            technology is probably a poor strategy for
                            accomplishing the acheivement of a waiver
                            from regulation.</div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
                          <div>_________________________________________<br>
                            malcolm stanley<br>
                            <br>
                            google.voice:  <a href="tel:215.821.6252" value="+12158216252" target="_blank">215.821.6252</a>        
                            <div>Cell: <a href="tel:267.251.9479" value="+12672519479" target="_blank">267.251.9479</a>   <-------------
                              new<br>
                              email: <a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a><br>
                              twitter / linkedin: amstanley<br>
                              Read my blog at <a href="http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com</a><br>
                              _________________________________________</div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 10, 2013
                            at 10:41 AM, Matt Maier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:blueback09@gmail.com" target="_blank">blueback09@gmail.com</a>></span>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <div dir="ltr">This is a dilemma that's
                                been building up for a while now. Open
                                source is all about sharing ideas so
                                that anyone who wants to build them, or
                                build off of them, can do so. Export
                                control is a legal regime that makes
                                sharing of certain ideas with
                                non-authorized entities a federal crime.
                                <div>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Those of you who were at the
                                  hardware documentation jam might
                                  remember the subject of legal
                                  constraints coming up, but at the time
                                  I didn't have a good example.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  It would seem that we now have our
                                  test case. The State Department has
                                  ordered Defense Distributed to stop
                                  that whole "sharing guns" thing while
                                  they review whether or not making them
                                  internationally available violates
                                  International Traffic in Arms
                                  Regulations.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/09/state-department-demands-takedown-of-3d-printable-gun-for-possible-export-control-violation/" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/09/state-department-demands-takedown-of-3d-printable-gun-for-possible-export-control-violation/</a><br>

                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Cody Wilson, a law student, says
                                  that what he's doing falls into a
                                  protected exception for non-profit
                                  public domain research. His argument
                                  is that the files are "stored in a
                                  library" in the sense that all
                                  libraries have internet access and
                                  there is a single bookstore in Austin
                                  providing the published plans. </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Getting any kind of official
                                  exception to export control for open
                                  source technology development would be
                                  a huge win. It would pave the way for
                                  much more ambitious projects.</div>
                                <span>
                                  <div><font color="#888888">
                                      <br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div>-Matt</div>
                                </span></div>
                              <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br>
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                    </div>
                    <br>
                    -- <br>
                    Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please
                    excuse my brevity.</blockquote>
                  <blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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    </blockquote>
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>discuss mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:discuss@lists.oshwa.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.oshwa.org</a></span><br>
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