<div dir="ltr"><div style><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><i>How are businesses freed from liability concerns? </i></span><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>I am not saying that the use of open source enables freedom from liability;</div>
<div style>I am saying that in commercial enterprise the use of open source IS ONLY ENABLED by freedom from liability concerns, and that this enabling freedom unlocks the many benefits of open source, which are otherwise unavailable and cannot be accessed...</div>
<div style>so a productive use of a certification would be to signal that the open source contents are free from litigation concern, if that were possible.</div><div style><br></div><div style><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><i>And why can business produce the designs but individuals can't? Don't businesses get started by individuals?</i></span><br>
</div><div style><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><i><br></i></span></div><div style><font face="arial, sans-serif">perhaps we are mixing commercial and non-commercial development here, or expert versus non-expert.</font></div>
<div style><font face="arial, sans-serif">I am perhaps overgeneralizing to think that individuals non-commercially trying their hands at open source hardware are more likely to be non-expert and lack the resources required to quickly gain expertise, when compared to individuals or companies commercially doing so.</font></div>
<div style><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><i><br></i></span></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br clear="all"><div>_________________________________________<br>malcolm stanley<br><br>google.voice: 215.821.6252 <div>Cell: 267.251.9479 <------------- new<br>email: <a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a><br>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Tom Igoe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><div><div class="im"><div>On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:37 PM, malcolm stanley wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">many businesses *could* produce the designs, but may gain efficiencies and other benefits from not having to.<div>
This is enabled by freedom from liability concerns.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>How are businesses freed from liability concerns? I can tell you that, as a small business owner, they keep me awake at night. And I own a company that *does* produce its designs openly. So I don't know where your argument is coming from there.</div>
<div><br></div><div>And why can business produce the designs but individuals can't? Don't businesses get started by individuals?</div><div><div class="im"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>
so no, I argue they are not the same as one is a benefit probably bounded by capability, while the other is a benefit probably bounded by perceived risk.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>Capability and risk always go hand in hand.</div>
<div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div>t.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div>_________________________________________<br>
malcolm stanley<br><br>google.voice: <a href="tel:215.821.6252" value="+12158216252" target="_blank">215.821.6252</a> <div>Cell: <a href="tel:267.251.9479" value="+12672519479" target="_blank">267.251.9479</a> <------------- new<br>
email: <a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a><br>twitter / linkedin: amstanley<br>
Read my blog at <a href="http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com</a><br>_________________________________________</div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:34 PM, Tom Igoe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">And that's the same need for businesses, no?<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>t.</div></font></span><div><div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:34 PM, malcolm stanley wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">A primary need of individuals is access to designs and other intellectual property which they are not capable of producing on their own, to use as a catalyst and a crutch for their own activities. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br clear="all"><div>_________________________________________<br>malcolm stanley<br><br>google.voice: <a href="tel:215.821.6252" value="+12158216252" target="_blank">215.821.6252</a> <div>Cell: <a href="tel:267.251.9479" value="+12672519479" target="_blank">267.251.9479</a> <------------- new<br>
email: <a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a><br>
twitter / linkedin: amstanley<br>Read my blog at <a href="http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com</a><br>_________________________________________</div></div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Tom Igoe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Can you clarify this a bit Matt?<div><br></div><div><br><div><div><div>On Feb 28, 2013, at 5:39 PM, Matt Maier wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><div>
For one standard to catch on it would have to be valuable to an awful lot of different entities with different goals and different contexts. I suspect that's not going to happen. Why? Because...</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<br>It's clear that the needs of businesses are different than the needs of individuals, and I think most of the resultant thread(s) are on their way to establishing what businesses can do.<br><br>Cameron<br></blockquote>
<div>...of this question. We've already identified two groups with obviously different needs. Businesses have to pull in at least enough money to cover their costs and risks; individuals don't.</div></span></blockquote>
<div><br></div></div><div>What *do* individuals need? The minute you start selling something, you face the same risks and liabilities and opportunities as any other business, Even if you put something out there publicly for someone else to use, you face the liabilities, unless you state the conditions under which you approve use of your design, and the limit of your responsibilities for that use. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Ideally, I'd like to see a definition *and* legal instruments that support individuals who choose to do either of these things (publish and sell, or publish and not sell), so that they have access to the same privileges and protections as any size business.</div>
<div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><div>
The need to generate a certain level of profit has to override other priorities. If it doesn't the business will simply disappear. If being "totally open" conflicts with "minimally profitable" then profit will have to win. Individuals can try to coerce and encourage businesses to be as open as possible, but at the end of the day their priorities are fundamentally different.</div>
</span></blockquote></div></div><div><br></div><div>So what are individuals' priorities and needs in an OSHW definition? What will an individual use it for, other than debate?</div><span><font color="#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>t.</div><div><br></div><br><div><br></div></font></span></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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