<div>For what it's worth, I was involved in a situation like this. </div>I was working with a company who had a toy for kids and was deciding to go open v. closed. When I asked more questions about the liability with selling it to kids, it turned out that part falls under warranty and not with IP. So he came clean with me and said he just didn't actually want to give away his designs and had been using the kid thing as an excuse. I think with standards we have to differentiate between warranty and IP. For example, Arduino's warranty is great! It clarifies the product is as is and promises nothing. But it doesn't have much to do with the IP. <div>
<br></div><div>Alicia </div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:55 PM, malcolm stanley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Tom, this whole discussion is a staggering example of customer development and I am in awe of your ability to draw people out so effectively. +1 to you for keeping this going so productively.<div>
<br></div><div>
when you say</div><div><br></div><div> <i> "<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I've spoken to multiple companies who've told me they can't afford to do open products due to the cost of liability. </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">How do you answer those?</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">".</span></i></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Can't address the concerns until they are at least quantified.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Can you clarify the liabilities of concern? Are they IP issues? Safety issues? or issues of another nature?</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="im">
<br clear="all">
<div>_________________________________________<br>malcolm stanley<br><br>google.voice: <a href="tel:215.821.6252" value="+12158216252" target="_blank">215.821.6252</a> <div>Cell: <a href="tel:267.251.9479" value="+12672519479" target="_blank">267.251.9479</a> <------------- new<br>
email: <a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a><br>
twitter / linkedin: amstanley<br>Read my blog at <a href="http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com</a><br>_________________________________________</div></div>
<br><br></div><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Tom Igoe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don't think you can ignore regulations, though, because they affect people's choices about openness. I've spoken to multiple companies who've told me they can't afford to do open products due to the cost of liability. How do you answer those?<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
t.<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
On Feb 28, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Pierce Nichols wrote:<br>
<br>
> I think OSHWA should focus on openness (i.e. reproducibility,<br>
> repairability, etc) and openness only. Leave the sort of specific<br>
> regulatory and technical specifications such as CE, UL and so on<br>
> encode to the existing bodies. They're doing a decent enough job as it<br>
> is.<br>
><br>
> I agree with Matt that the logo should be simple and easy to Google.<br>
> It also really needs to be monochrome if we're going to put it on<br>
> PCBs. It's possible to do multi-colored legends, but it's expensive<br>
> and limits your options for PCB houses.<br>
><br>
> -p<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Tom Igoe <<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> That's the kind of response i was hoping for, thanks!<br>
>><br>
>> No, I don't think OSHWA does any of those things yet. Should it?<br>
>><br>
>> t.<br>
>><br>
>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:49 PM, malcolm stanley wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I would argue as a reseller in the telecom space that UL / CSA / CE etc cert<br>
>> markings are extremely important and that some segments of consumers are<br>
>> extremely aware of them. In any case, unless you plan to ALWAYS sell your<br>
>> products direct to consumers, then you must consider the needs of the<br>
>> intermediate markets who rely on these certifications and the assurances<br>
>> underlying them as an important form of insurance against liability and<br>
>> litigation. Does OSHWA provide a service of any kind that provides a service<br>
>> to intermediate purchasers and resellers who would otherwise have to do the<br>
>> work themselves? Thinking export compliance, parts list verification,<br>
>> country of origin documentation as an example of a valuable outcome to some<br>
>> segment of possible intermediate purchasers...<br>
>><br>
>> _________________________________________<br>
>> malcolm stanley<br>
>><br>
>> google.voice: <a href="tel:215.821.6252" value="+12158216252" target="_blank">215.821.6252</a><br>
>> Cell: <a href="tel:267.251.9479" value="+12672519479" target="_blank">267.251.9479</a> <------------- new<br>
>> email: <a href="mailto:a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.malcolm.stanley@gmail.com</a><br>
>> twitter / linkedin: amstanley<br>
>> Read my blog at <a href="http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com</a><br>
>> _________________________________________<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Tom Igoe <<a href="mailto:tom.igoe@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.igoe@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Great question.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'd say currently the mark is only for those in the club. It's a growing<br>
>>> club, if sales are any indication, but it is still a club. How wide an<br>
>>> audience does OSHWA want to reach?<br>
>>><br>
>>> There are certs that reach a mass audience and are still unknown to<br>
>>> consumers, e.g. UL. That could be one model: still a club, but very<br>
>>> widespread.<br>
>>><br>
>>> t.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:38 PM, malcolm stanley wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Still unclear to me who the mark is for. If it is for end-user consumers<br>
>>> then, for the forseeable future, the information density of the mark must be<br>
>>> extremely limited, as most consumers will not be able to interpret it or<br>
>>> know what it means. In this case the mark must provide clear direction, via<br>
>>> script or visible lettering, that may be used to easily find the mark on the<br>
>>> internet via search, so the meaning of the mark can be researched by the<br>
>>> minimally curious..<br>
>>><br>
>>> If the mark is only for those in the club who are versed in the secret<br>
>>> signs and handshakes, and know where to look for it in the secret hiding<br>
>>> place, then the information density may go up, as we can colour code etc to<br>
>>> our hearts content. But then we possibly lose access to the mark as an<br>
>>> advertising and marketing tool driving awareness of our efforts.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Again, who is the target market for the mark?<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.oshwa.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.oshwa.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.oshwa.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.oshwa.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.oshwa.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.oshwa.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Pierce Nichols<br>
> Principal Engineer<br>
> Logos Electromechanical, LLC<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.oshwa.org" target="_blank">discuss@lists.oshwa.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>