[Discuss] OSHW and patent trolls 99cyasr 99patents 99trolls

Tue Oct 29 17:46:50 UTC 2013

>From Hackaday:
http://hackaday.com/2013/10/23/3d-printering-a-call-for-an-open-source-automated-build-platform/

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 11:27 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:

> fundamentally an idea can't be patented. but an implementation method
> can.  pax's method ( the method makerbot patented ) is not reflected in any
> of the material sourced.  but anyone could manufacture a headed treadmill
> as long as they used a different implementation method than pax.
>
> that's how patents are supposed to work.  the issue that is a bit of a
> grey area is that.... defending your rights is very expensive and changes
> the overall dynamic of the patent office ultimately negating its value in
> sum totality.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 1:16 AM, Jordan Miller <jrdnmlr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> yes but reprap predates and inspired MakerBot. here Adrian Bowyer asserts
>> Ed Sells (Mendel v1 developer) came up with the idea:
>> http://blog.reprap.org/2010/07/continuous-belt-production.html
>>
>> I wonder if it was written in his notebooks.
>>
>> Adrian I believe also invested in MakerBot. But Ed Sells thesis was
>> published in 2009, would be interesting to take a look. Most of the work
>> detailed the reprap Darwin and goes back to 2007 or so:
>> http://opus.bath.ac.uk/20452/2/UnivBath_PhD_2009_E_A_Sells.pdf
>>
>> jordan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Andrew Plumb <andrew at plumb.org> wrote:
>>
>> Yup, he's named in the patents themselves:
>>
>> https://www.google.com/patents/US8226395
>> https://www.google.com/patents/US8287794
>>
>> Andrew.
>>
>> On 2013-10-28, at 3:07 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>
>> I remember pax working on that platform a long while back like early
>> cupcake days.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Jordan Miller <jrdnmlr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> you might consider looking at makerbot's patent on the automated build
>>> platform conveyor belt system for automatic serial (one after another) 3d
>>> printing, which I believe was predated by prior art descriptions of this
>>> technology/idea on the reprap forum a long time ago. dunno the priority
>>> date of the MakerBot patent.
>>>
>>> jordan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:07 AM, Alicia Gibb <pip at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the article, it's helpful when this stuff is documented.
>>> Catarina, oshwa's research chair is writing a business survey, this would
>>> be a good question to enter, and really any IP issues would be good to hear
>>> about.
>>>
>>> Alicia
>>> On Aug 20, 2013 7:29 PM, "Doug Leppard" <doug.leppard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alicia thank you so much for your answer which went to the core of my
>>>> question.  I had heard patent trolls went after startups even if there was
>>>> no money and either killed the startup with their demands or got a piece of
>>>> the action (percentage of the company) to force the startup to get rid of
>>>> the threat.****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Colleen Chien worked a white paper on “Startups and Patent Trolls”.
>>>> The paper has excellent recommendations on changing patent law.  See
>>>> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2146251 ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> I am glad to hear it has not been an issue so far with the OSHW
>>>> community but I know it has been with people on Kickstarter project and
>>>> even Kickstarter itself.**
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Doug Leppard****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> *From:* discuss-bounces at lists.oshwa.org [mailto:
>>>> discuss-bounces at lists.oshwa.org] *On Behalf Of *Alicia Gibb
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 20, 2013 1:39 PM
>>>> *To:* The Open Source Hardware Association Discussion List
>>>> *Cc:* 999jy; Marketply
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Discuss] OSHW and patent trolls 99cyasr 99patents
>>>> 99trolls****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> I haven't yet heard of any patent trolls specifically going after open
>>>> hardware. Considering that patent trolls make their money off IP, its
>>>> possible that a product / project with no IP and therefore no money for
>>>> them doesn't appeal to them. I'd also like to hear from the community if
>>>> this has happened to anyone?****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> As for discussion, there is a lot of discussion currently in the US
>>>> Congress about IP reform. Nathan Seidle testified a few weeks ago offering
>>>> his changes to the current system to lawmakers:
>>>> https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1229****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> If you've got ideas for patent reform, now is the time to send your
>>>> congresspeople an email. ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,****
>>>>
>>>> Alicia ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM, YES NOPE9 <yes at nope9.com> wrote:****
>>>>
>>>> One way to deal with this is to set up a database of ideas released
>>>> into the public domain ( prior art )****
>>>>
>>>> These ideas could be tagged so that Goggle could search for them .......
>>>> ****
>>>>
>>>> Tag could be #PublicDomainPatent****
>>>>
>>>>           99guspuppet****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 19, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Marketply wrote:****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Patents will get ever more competition from openly published, freed
>>>> inventions, especially the day when there will be a reliable, open
>>>> technology database available the patent system can easily access to review
>>>> for prior art.****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> I've been in discussion with a patent lawyer about this for two years,
>>>> and I'm getting ready to submit a few guidelines for patent reform, with
>>>> actual examples. Now the time is perfect.****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> There's already hints of this entering public discussion<http://blog.makezine.com/2013/05/02/first-to-file-nah-first-to-blog>
>>>> .****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> It would seem that the change to 'first to file' gives extraordinary
>>>> advantages to open technology that hasn't yet been fully realized. I've
>>>> been asking lawyers long before the change what this means for publishing
>>>> (before anyone files a patent), and all replies look good for publishing
>>>> 'open patents' before anyone can file the patent.****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> Speed is of the essence. And crowd-powered efforts on open projects
>>>> have that as a natural advantage. ****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> We only need a Quirky type of organization for publishing high quality
>>>> open technology schematics at lightning speed, and a revolution in open
>>>> technology is upon us.****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> If anyone wants more info on the patent reform guidelines or even to
>>>> collaborate we can open a new discussion.****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> Marino Hernandez****
>>>>
>>>> (just a founder of Marketply <http://www.marketply.org/>)****
>>>>
>>>> 203-429-420****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> On August 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM Doug Leppard <doug.leppard at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote: ****
>>>>
>>>> What are some experiences with OSHW and patent issues especially patent
>>>> trolls.  A friend of mine who is a patent attorney said that almost
>>>> anything you do could be covered by a patent already.  Recent articles
>>>> shows of trolls going after Kickstarter projects.****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> Any experiences here?  Anything to learn from?****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>> Doug Leppard****
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ****
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> ClothBot Designs
>> info at clothbot.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>> "The future is already here.  It's just not very evenly distributed" --
>> William Gibson
>>
>> Me: http://clothbot.com/wiki/
>>
>>
>>
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