[Discuss] Reactions to Defense Distributed?
Michael Weinberg
mweinberg at publicknowledge.org
Mon Nov 11 21:15:56 UTC 2013
It's true. Now $200,000 is the only thing between you and your own metal
gun.
Oh. Wait.
(sorry, I know I'm overly jaded about these 3D printed gun stories)
On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 2:54 PM, J. Simmons <jrs at mach30.org> wrote:
> I haven't had time to watch the video, but I just saw this on Mashable.
> Apparently someone 3D printed an all metal gun.
>
>
> http://mashable.com/2013/11/11/3d-printed-metal-gun/?utm_cid=mash-com-g+-main-link
>
> -J
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 12:23 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>
>> One more for the list.
>>
>> I had this thought the other night.
>>
>> In some states, fashioning your own firearm is legal. In most states
>> purchasing an 80% lower receiver and all the necessary parts for assembling
>> an AR-15 can be done over the internet delivered to your door without
>> waiting period or registration.
>>
>> A gun built at home is not serial numbered and can never be sold or
>> change hands basically. It also must conform to local state and federal
>> laws relating to fire arms.
>>
>> But, that raises the question. If I build a vending machine of sorts,
>> that someone can walk up to ... hit a button... and it mills out the 80%
>> lower receiver right there... assembles the AR-15 and just spits it
>> out... Is that a DIY firearm? Is that completely legal? Can we build
>> AR-15 vending machines that require no registration and no waiting period?
>> Obviously in some states and counties the answer is already a firm hell no
>> as DIY firearms are not really allowed. But.... in others....
>>
>> And in that case, screw 3d printers. You can build a legitimate AR-15
>> vending machine fairly easily. Even if all it does is quickly mill the
>> lower receiver and dump all the parts for manually assembly.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> The negative side to going to sleep early is your brain won't turn off
>> and it things up some really weird shit.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Joel Murphy <joel at joelmurphy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think it's the same as a book. CAD files are more like plans and
>>> drawings, they contain all the the specifications of how a thing
>>> could/should be built, but it takes tools and materials and expertise to
>>> actually pull it off.
>>> The advent of the thing-printer is a significant moment, but anyone who
>>> has worked with one knows that there are many opportunities for failure in
>>> the process of making a thing. This is nothing new. The idea of making
>>> weapons in shop class is older than our grandparents. Is the weapon-isation
>>> of 3D printing shocking because of the (false) idea that you just have to
>>> press a button to make it? Or that the gun is more concealable? These are
>>> paranoid thoughts.
>>> The are plenty of plans and drawings available for folding knives and
>>> trebuchets. Why is the BS cloud hanging over this plastic gun demonstration
>>> that is more likely to remove the user's finger? You could easier fashion a
>>> garrote from some fishing twine and sticks if you really had it in for
>>> someone. The whole thing is more about our wacky second amendment than
>>> anything else.
>>> And the thingiverse is responsible for editing what it publishes just as
>>> we are in our conduct to others and what we allow into our lives.
>>>
>>> Joel
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> Making the World Safe for Robots
>>>
>>> Any noise in the prior signal has been inserted by the Nexus7
>>> I think the only interesting questions to be raised by this 3d printed
>>> weapon BS, is how we fundamentally view CAD, programming, and general
>>> automation of tasks.
>>>
>>> Is CAD a form of knowledge in the same way that a book is?
>>>
>>> Is censorship of CAD files basically the same as placing limits on our
>>> own ability to seek knowledge? And is that a bad thing? I can't help but
>>> see books burning when I see CAD files removed from the internet. Now I
>>> know I am on the extreme side of pro-freedom, but I still see the
>>> opportunity for terrible abuses in a digital fabrication age. We've seen
>>> what DRM has done to the publishing industry. I walk through a used book
>>> store and I can see the world of knowledge that amazon has all but left to
>>> rot hidden in the dusty stacks of now vanishing ruins to a bygone
>>> industry. And the fault is not amazons... the fault is copyrights that are
>>> held by companies with no desire or incentive to ensure the survivability
>>> of their content.
>>>
>>> The future of CAD is already wrapped in a turmoil of patents,
>>> copyrights, and political correctness. I think we should be focused more
>>> on protecting designs from loss. Internet Archive and the sort may play a
>>> key role in that better future.
>>>
>>> But one question continues to challenge me. "If it's so easy to <x>
>>> with a CAD file, does it stop being knowledge?" And it's a fair question.
>>> When a file represents an object, most will see it as the button they press
>>> to get an object, and not the collection of information that defines that
>>> object.
>>>
>>> Is it knowledge then? Even if it contains that knowledge has the
>>> function been rewritten by common use?
>>>
>>> I don't know. But I trust people to be awesome. So I want the
>>> knowledge to be preserved. And I want the knowledge to be there for others
>>> to build on if they choose, or equally ignore if they choose. I don't want
>>> to live in a world where people's works can be taken from them. And that's
>>> exactly what has happened in the past with classification of data, with
>>> DRM, and with content as a commodity.
>>>
>>> -Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Devlin Thyne <dthyne at dh-global.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looking at my RSS feed from Thingiverse, it seems the last post was in
>>>> December of 2012. If you would like, I can send you all the posts since
>>>> early 2011.
>>>>
>>>> Bre Pettis had a post about deadly weapons from October 3rd of 2011,
>>>> quoted below:
>>>>
>>>> When we started Thingiverse we didn’t want there to be weapons on it,
>>>> but there were a number of awesome toy weapons that blurred the line and so
>>>> we changed the TOS to something more blurry and toy weapons carried on. In
>>>> fact, if you shoot anything on Thingiverse fast enough, you could hurt
>>>> someone. There have been a lot of things on Thingiverse that could be
>>>> classified as weapons, but they could also be classified as toys. A
>>>> miniature catapult is technically a siege weapon, but it could also be
>>>> classified as a toy. To summarize, our weapons policy has been a blurry
>>>> line.
>>>>
>>>> Recently there has been a lot of discussion around guns since the lower
>>>> arm of an AR-15 model went up on Thingiverse. It’s a beautiful model. It’s
>>>> also the only part of the AR-15 that you can’t just mail order. It’s been
>>>> possible and legal to make your own firearms since the beginning of the
>>>> USA, but is Thingiverse the right place for deadly weapons?
>>>>
>>>> We’re discussing this internally and we’re spending time exploring the
>>>> legalities of firearms on Thingiverse. We want to make sure that
>>>> Thingiverse can be accessed from schools and is student friendly and we are
>>>> exploring the implications of weapons on Thingiverse for classrooms.
>>>>
>>>> It’s a controversial subject. For myself, I get a lot of satisfaction
>>>> from shooting guns in the woods at tin cans, but I also had my best
>>>> childhood friend commit suicide with a gun he bought by routing around the
>>>> registration process. I’m not convinced that 3D printing is easier than
>>>> buying a gun illegally, but it does offer another avenue for weapons to
>>>> enter the world. Will the next war be armed with 3D printers? One thing
>>>> that’s for sure, the cat is out of the bag and that cat can be armed with
>>>> guns made with printed parts.
>>>>
>>>> Before we make a decision, I’d like to get the Thingiverse users’
>>>> feedback. We’re going to either change the terms of service or not, but we
>>>> want to get your feedback before we make that decision.
>>>>
>>>> On Thingiverse you’ll find a poll in the sidebar with three possible
>>>> choices. Below the choices is a place for you to leave your comments. This
>>>> poll can only be seen if you’re logged in. Each Thingiverse user can only
>>>> vote once and once you’ve made your choice, the poll disappears. I hope
>>>> you’ll take the time to tell us what kind of Thingiverse you want and use
>>>> the comment section to tell us why.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/01/2013 09:20 AM, Catarina Mota wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Also, am I missing something is the Thingiverse blog gone? Searched the
>>>>> Makerbot blog and couldn't find anything about the weapons ban.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Catarina Mota
>>>>> <catarina at openmaterials.org <mailto:catarina at openmaterials.org>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Johan, that's a great tip! Do you by any chance have links?
>>>>> I've only been able to find weapon-related discussions from the
>>>>> last
>>>>> 6 months.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Johan Söderberg
>>>>> <johan.soderberg at sts.gu.se <mailto:johan.soderberg at sts.gu.se>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Catarina,
>>>>>
>>>>> You can find reactions from the community in-real-time in the
>>>>> Rep-rap discussion forums and on Thingiverse blog from
>>>>> September-Oktober 2011. In the Rep-rap forum, speculations on
>>>>> this possibility dates back to day one the project was started
>>>>> (2005), but in threads that have been pushed to the back by the
>>>>> moderators. Please keep me updated, I be very interested to
>>>>> read
>>>>> if you are going to write about this topic.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Johan
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> J. Simmons, President
> Mach 30: Foundation for Space Development
> http://mach30.org
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Michael Weinberg, Vice President, PK Thinks
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