[Discuss] Legal Meetup Nov. 11th in NYC

Mon Nov 11 06:16:13 UTC 2013

Alicia, et al,

Hopefully Alicia (and others who are going to be in the meeting) will see
these questions before the meeting.  I will try to focus them on licensing
related questions since the guest experts are patent lawyers.

* At the first Open Hardware Summit John Wilbanks proposed the idea that
since OSHW is made up of materials which are licensed differently, that
OSHW licenses will probably be compound in nature.  His idea as I
understood it was to license the various parts of the supporting materials
(documentation, source code, etc) with the appropriate established
licenses.  At Mach 30, we have taken the general concept and created a
"meta-license" which describes the overall intent and specifies the
licenses which will be used for various elements of the project.  Can the
lawyers comment on this idea and on the specific implementation (sources
are included in the link -
http://mach30.org/about/mach-30-open-design-pledge/)?

* Speaking of alternate licenses, can the lawyers comment on the SolderPad
License and Attribution Only style license for OSHW?

* How likely is it that a contributor could, after having made a patentable
suggestion to a project, file for a patent on that invention within the (as
I understand it) one year time limit from first public disclosure and be in
a position to turn around and hold the patent over the project's head?  I
ask not because I expect bad actors, but because patents are so different
from what the open source world is used to (aka copyrights) and I think it
is valuable to be aware of risks, especially where financial gain can come
into play.  I am hoping the answer is it would be very difficult and this
is not likely at all.

* Speaking of risk, can the lawyers comment on the effectiveness of the
indemnification clauses used in open source software (such as clauses 7 & 8
in the Apache Software License -
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html) when the same language is
applied to OSHW projects?

OK, that was really more of a liability question, but insurance and product
liability has been a conversation topic lately at Mach 30.  Here's another
one just while we are on the subject.

* Can the lawyers comment on the legal exposure contributors have in OSHW
projects?  For example, say a flaw is found in an OSHW project, one that is
causing property damage to users who buy kits or finished versions of the
OSHW project.  The project performs the necessary due diligence to find the
cause of the problem (as part of their work to fix it) and find out the
problem was caused by a contribution from a volunteer.  Would end users who
found out about this have grounds for a suit against the volunteer?  Or is
the project (corporation, non-profit, project leader in non-incorporated
projects) the sole legal responsible party?

Back to a licensing related question.  It is probably very straight forward.

* Is there a clause which projects should include in a terms of service, or
similar document, to ensure a transfer of IP rights/ownership of all
contributed ideas to the project?  I realize software projects have example
language, but I am curious what role patents and other hardware specific
concerns have in shaping a clause like this.

If I think of any more in the morning I will post them.  Thanks again to
the great folks at OSHWA for arranging this meeting.

 -J

On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Mario Gómez <mxgxw.alpha at gmail.com> wrote:

> In some countries is not possible to have copyrights over design files for
> devices (I think is the same in the US), they can only be protected using
> patents.
>
> But I see many people using software licenses in OSHW projects, if I had
> to make a question to a lawyer about the legal issues surrounding this, it
> would be: What is really protected in a OSHW project with an open-source
> sofware license? Only the source code? The documentation?
>
> Regards,
> Mario.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Matt Maier <blueback09 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source-software/4-ways-open-source-protects-you-against-software-patents-230433
>>
>> Q: Open software has a longer history of dealing with patent issues. How
>> much can open hardware adopt directly from open software? How much needs to
>> be tweaked? How much just doesn't apply?
>>
>> Q: Is there a defensive patent pool, like OIN, for hardware? If not, can
>> open hardware just join OIN? If not, can open hardware benefit from setting
>> up something similar?
>>
>> Q: Newer open software licenses, like GNU GPLv3, include reciprocal
>> patent agreements. Do any open hardware licenses include similar clauses?
>> If not, can they?
>>
>> Q: Linux Defenders injects the work happening in open software directly
>> into places the USPTO already does prior art searches. Can open hardware
>> join them? If not, can open hardware set up something similar?
>>
>>  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:34 AM, J. Simmons <jrs at mach30.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Alicia,
>>>
>>> Thanks for checking.  I will be write down the questions we have been
>>> thinking about (with a focus on IP issues) and get them to you before Mon.
>>>
>>>  -J
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:43 AM, alicia <amgibb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like the room has any infrastructure
>>>> for this type of thing. But if you want to forward me questions, or have a
>>>> separate call with me to talk about the items you're up against we can do
>>>> that. Regarding the export stuff being talked about though, I doubt these
>>>> lawyers would have advice on that, given that they both specialize in
>>>> patent law. So I'll be taking any patent relevant questions with me that
>>>> have come up in this thread, and any others that might be added.
>>>>
>>>> Alicia
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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-- 
J. Simmons, President
Mach 30: Foundation for Space Development
http://mach30.org
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