[Discuss] discuss Digest, Vol 9, Issue 15

Tom Igoe t.igoe at arduino.cc
Thu Feb 28 23:05:13 UTC 2013 

I'm the co-owner of a small business that sells products directly to consumers (albeit hobbyist ones), a faculty member of a university, and an individual who makes products for use, so I definitely see all three as part of the intended audience.  And I'm not sure how any of the needs of these three are mutually exclusive. 

Tom

On Feb 28, 2013, at 5:31 PM, Cameron Adamez <cameron at suspectdevices.com> wrote:

> Perhaps I am in the wrong camp, but I see four scenarios:
> 1) as an employee in a small business (>10 people) that sells products directly to consumers 
> 2) as an employee in a small business that does contract work for a client
> 3) as an individual (or group) creating a product for use in the local community
> 4) as a student or faculty member of a college or university creating a product for use internally or for the local community
> 
> From your vantage point perhaps these are not part of the intended audience, but in my observations there is no knowledge of best practices available to people in scenarios 1-3. In scenario 4, I believe it's important that schools actively participate within their locale instead of being away in an ivory tower. If we are to take open source hardware and design to its logical conclusion, it's quite possible that the work individuals or groups do outside of business will directly influence what people inside of a business do. This happens in open source software all the time and I am starting to see this in hardware as well.
> 
> Cameron
> 
> On Feb 28, 2013, at 2:18 PM, Tom Igoe <tom.igoe at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> One of the points when we first started to discuss forming OSHWA was making a professional/trade organization to promote best practices for businesses, so that may be why you're hearing that bias from me, at least.  I can't speak for others.
>> 
>> What kinds of needs do you see for individuals that would require an organization like OSHWA, and where do you see those conflicting with business needs?
>> 
>> t.
>> 
>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 5:08 PM, Cameron Adamez wrote:
>> 
>>> It's clear that the needs of businesses are different than the needs of individuals, and I think most of the resultant thread(s) are on their way to establishing what businesses can do. 
>>> 
>>> Cameron
>>> 
>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:04 PM, Tom Igoe <tom.igoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I don't think you can ignore regulations, though, because they affect people's choices about openness.  I've spoken to multiple companies who've told me they can't afford to do open products due to the cost of liability.  How do you answer those?
>>>> 
>>>> t.
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Pierce Nichols wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I think OSHWA should focus on openness (i.e. reproducibility,
>>>>> repairability, etc) and openness only. Leave the sort of specific
>>>>> regulatory and technical specifications such as CE, UL and so on
>>>>> encode to the existing bodies. They're doing a decent enough job as it
>>>>> is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree with Matt that the logo should be simple and easy to Google.
>>>>> It also really needs to be monochrome if we're going to put it on
>>>>> PCBs. It's possible to do multi-colored legends, but it's expensive
>>>>> and limits your options for PCB houses.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -p
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Tom Igoe <tom.igoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> That's the kind of response i was hoping for, thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, I don't think OSHWA does any of those things yet.  Should it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> t.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:49 PM, malcolm stanley wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would argue as a reseller in the telecom space that UL / CSA / CE etc cert
>>>>>> markings are extremely important and that some segments of consumers are
>>>>>> extremely aware of them. In any case, unless you plan to ALWAYS sell your
>>>>>> products direct to consumers, then you must consider the needs of the
>>>>>> intermediate markets who rely on these certifications and the assurances
>>>>>> underlying them  as an important form of insurance against liability and
>>>>>> litigation. Does OSHWA provide a service of any kind that provides a service
>>>>>> to intermediate purchasers and resellers who would otherwise have to do the
>>>>>> work themselves? Thinking export compliance, parts list verification,
>>>>>> country of origin documentation as an example of a valuable outcome to some
>>>>>> segment of possible intermediate purchasers...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>> malcolm stanley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> google.voice:  215.821.6252
>>>>>> Cell: 267.251.9479   <------------- new
>>>>>> email: a.malcolm.stanley at gmail.com
>>>>>> twitter / linkedin: amstanley
>>>>>> Read my blog at http://soaringhorse.blogspot.com
>>>>>> _________________________________________
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Tom Igoe <tom.igoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Great question.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd say currently the mark is only for those in the club. It's a growing
>>>>>>> club, if sales are any indication, but it is still a club.  How wide an
>>>>>>> audience does OSHWA want to reach?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are certs that reach a mass audience and are still unknown to
>>>>>>> consumers, e.g. UL. That could be one model: still a club, but very
>>>>>>> widespread.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> t.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 28, 2013, at 1:38 PM, malcolm stanley wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Still unclear to me who the mark is for. If it is for end-user consumers
>>>>>>> then, for the forseeable future, the information density of the mark must be
>>>>>>> extremely limited, as most consumers will not be able to interpret it or
>>>>>>> know what it means. In this case the mark must provide clear direction, via
>>>>>>> script or visible lettering, that may be used to easily find the mark on the
>>>>>>> internet via search, so the meaning of the mark can be researched by the
>>>>>>> minimally curious..
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If the mark is only for those in the club who are versed in the secret
>>>>>>> signs and handshakes, and know where to look for it in the secret hiding
>>>>>>> place, then the information density may go up, as we can colour code etc to
>>>>>>> our hearts content. But then we possibly lose access to the mark as an
>>>>>>> advertising and marketing tool driving awareness of our efforts.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Again, who is the target market for the mark?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Pierce Nichols
>>>>> Principal Engineer
>>>>> Logos Electromechanical, LLC
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss at lists.oshwa.org
>>>> http://lists.oshwa.org/listinfo/discuss
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
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